beast-unleashed 2008-11-14 17:31:36

i think egoraptor sayd it clearly.
JUST SHUT THE FUK UP

MAYORMCHEESE 2008-11-14 17:36:12

A few months ago ashford pride made a movie with a foreboding title. It was called "Awesome Grounds".

Well ladies and gentlemen, that's might as well what this site should be called (at least right now), with the top row on the front page slot dedicated to an "awesome" movie and an "awesome" parody, an "awesome" t-shirt in the newgrounds store, and pretty much every "awesome" movie in the top 100, along with han's "awesome's creed".

I can't go to newgrounds with seeing something not about egoraptor or his coveted video game parody series. It makes me wonder sometimes if pursuing anything but half-assed cartoons making mildly funny observations about video games laced with profanity is even worth it. Truly, they are what bring the masses of 13-year olds to this site, and thus increases traffic and competition in the internet world. But you have to ask yourself, with this sort of two-bit audience increasing in numbers, are they really interested in watching anything else?

I understand that it's a dog eat dog world in the online entertainment business, and to compete you have to pretty much put up content that a majority of internet browsers would click on. This includes either women or video games. Things they already know they want. And that's all they want. They sign up, watch more, and come back and do it again later. They're trained to know that what they want is easily accessible and is promoted all over the site.

Original content is often shuffled off to the bottom of the page, or never gets any attention to begin with. Now comes into play the whole 'they won't click on it unless there's a boob for the icon', etc etc. That's because they've been fashioned to think that way.

I'm not saying i have all the mysterious answers to the way people's minds work. But this much is true - if all people click on are breasts and video game icons, and you give them breasts and video game icons, you're not pushing the envelope.

Newgrounds is the epitome of user-generated content. We already have a massive advantage over youtube in the fact that making a cartoon involves so much more creativity than snappily editing your webcam footage. So instead of 200 cartoons coming out every minute, we have 200 cartoons coming out every day. That gives someone a better chance of breaking out and being discovered for his hard work, and a reward for a job well done.

But in the same way that viewers are trained that they don't have to go out of their way to avoid original content they would otherwise enjoy, authors are becoming more and more disenchanted with their personal creations and are turning to nerd culture icons and cheap tactics to get viewers.

I can't tell you how many animators I have spoken to that have shunned their own creations in favor of sub-pop culture parody and disjointed scripts sprinkled with toilet humor and profanity. a cartoon catering to everyone who's forgotten what cartoons are all about. And here we are shoving away everything about cartoons that was originally appealing and magical, because we're pretty much forced to.

I'm not pointing the finger at any one person here. I think it's part of the bigger picture - bigger than Newgrounds, too. But if people really care about the future of cartoons and animation, we wouldn't be seeing this kind of blatant favoritism.

People will find what they want if they want it. They don't need to be spoon fed it all.

For thirty years animators who strive to create something genuinely unique have gotten nothing but a slap in the face. It's sickening and it has to stop someday, before they all disappear.

Lastly, this post is not about me. I'm not writing this out of self-pity, bitterness or spite. I'm being honest. I care a lot about the future of animation, and what I see around me is very troubling. The industry is bad enough, but where the future lies is in the small corners of the animation world. Newgrounds is one of them. I spend a lot of time trying to encourage and teach frame-by-frame animation, and creating your own characters and scripts. That is what is important to me. If I really cared about being popular, my list of flash cartoons would look a lot different.

sorbitol 2008-11-14 17:55:18

Seeing as how we're all fighting the same fight etc I was wondering if it would be okay for people to vote FAIRLY on this:

<a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/469430">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view /469430</a>

It IS original, it has NO video game references and is VERY enjoyable but for these very reasons it has been cruelly under-rated. Come on, 3.44?
Don't be a cunt. Let's sort this out.

JonBro 2008-11-14 18:03:51

I'm making quite a few original things at the moment. I just don't have any of them finished, and usually when I get a video-game parody idea, I finish it a whole lot faster :(

ZekeySpaceyLizard 2008-11-14 18:14:30

Why do people keep talking about this? Its never going to change.
It
Is
NEVER
GOING
TO
CHANGE

just make what you want and enjoy your small niche audience/fanbase.
and maybe if you're REALLY FUCKIN LUCKY, you'll get work.

pirtaral 2008-11-14 18:49:42

Here is what Egoraptor meant: If you make original stuff, people will follow suit because they will be inspired by your work. That is, if they can find the work through the shitty game parodies that I make and everybody copies.
Oh, and according to me, making a complaint paragraph to try improve the place you want to like, but can't partly because of me being a sellout. Takes months.
BRB
VIDEO GAME OBSERVING
THEN WRITING SCRIPT TO WHAT I HAVE OBSERVED
I bet somebody will agree with me JUST because I am Egoraptor, maybe somebody called "beast-unleashed" or something who will not say why he agrees with me, but just wants to say my name and think I will notice.

I will be off to make money off of copyrighted stuff now. Stop complaining bro because if things change, my fame and money will vanish.

Olimar011 2008-11-14 19:34:16

After reading where you said if the sprites are original and made by the author they would be eligible for prizes etc. , I'm starting to agree with you a bit. Although video game parodies are abundant on this site, it's just today's culture, something that almost everyone will be able to get.

As for the original work, just tough it, all the great artists have encountered difficulties, this could just be yours. :P

Emanhattan 2008-11-14 19:56:05

egoraptor said "If prize money is favorable towards original work wouldn't the the desire then be driven by monetary gain more than desire to make original toons anyway?"

If you are illwillpress, yeah. and prize money is not favorable towars original work at all really.

So basically what you said is that a person that can make original content and win money, WITHOUT it being the main reason for doing these things, cant exist?

I KNOW there are many animators that dont do this for the money even tough they have been successful at getting it.

It doesnt matter if it is a game parody, an original cartoon or whatever, If the motivation is to have fun with this, everything is just fine and great, because you are doing this FOR YOURSELF.

But if money and popularity are the motivation, whats the point of making this things? People that sell out will never be happy with what they did.

I have never won prize money before, but If I ever do, I hope it is for something i truly deserve and have worked in for a looong time.

This is the way i see it.

FightingSeraph 2008-11-14 20:07:37

I'm siding with Tom and Egoraptor on this. If you want to see more original cartoons on here; LEAD THE WAY. By the way, expect Camp North to end up like TXM in a few years.

Fawx 2008-11-14 21:11:41

"It's funny, my halloween flash has dropped to 3.62. I'm thinking maybe it's because Egoraptor makes a cameo, dies horribly thus fanboy's vote 0. OR it's just a really horrible, badly animated piece of crap."

No sir. It is NOT because it's horrible. It is definitely not terrible. It's amazing. GOOD things are getting insanely underrated nowadays. BAD things are getting insanely overrated nowadays. I don't know, or will ever know how the Flash has such a low score.

"It
Is
NEVER
GOING
TO
CHANGE"

I am slowly realizing this. And it's kinda sad. But it's true.

And CampNorth looks really cool. But if people keep talking about it, all the fags here will transfer over there, and it'll be NG all over again.

Btw Blordow I love you.

Egoraptor 2008-11-14 23:08:34

3 days from now this thread will be completely forgotten and no one will care.

5 years from now, Legend of Khale will still be someone's favorite cartoon.

I'm just saying, man. If you wanna try to make a difference just do something instead of getting a bunch of angry teenagers riled for a couple days.

piosonblooddrop 2008-11-14 23:28:16

yes, but what if this happens: you spent almost a year getting inspiration for your parody, and then put in a lot of hard work to animate and etc. you submit, but then are declined a prize because its a parody. meanwhile, a poorly animated, cruddy ORIGINAL flash is basking in the light of the prize. I'm not saying that your idea is bad, but come on, some people who are more ehrm.. mentally challenged... might have worked hard on their parody or sprite flash. but i wouldn't know since i don't animate myself :\. also, nice picture.

Skeik 2008-11-14 23:55:36

I don't think any situation is out of hand yet. More people will like what they're familiar with. Most people here like video games and videogame characters, parodies and the like. Just because someone makes a flash with Mario in it doesn't mean they worked any less hard on it. Is it fair that people don't get as much attention for original characters? No. But that's just the way it is. The community like what it likes and there's nothing you can do, and in my eyes there is nothing that should be changed.

Taking awards away from people who earned them, people who voted for them to win would be stupid IMO. Everyone should be eligible to win, they win because the people vote for them and the community gets what it wants. If you make something that you consider original and it doesn't get a good score, I don't think you should be pissed off. Take it and try to make something better. Improve on your animation, make your jokes more accessible, form a style that's easily differentiable from other people. If you're only here to create original content a daily award shouldn't mean anything.

Also, there's still a lot of great things coming into newgrounds and still a plethora of great artists here.

Egoraptor 2008-11-15 00:10:05

I absolutely see where you're coming from, bro. It's frustrating sure, but it's just all in how you look at it. Either way, whether 1,000 views or 1,000,000 views, you're still just creating what you want, and you shouldn't let some fickle rating system stop you from creating what you love. =)

Meanderingmouse 2008-11-15 02:24:36

I'm sure someone's already said my part before, but this caught my attention enough to say something...
First off, I agree with you. Newgrounds is becoming a great, big, festering, stagnant little shit heap because of the lack of originality. I agree that the Meet-and-Fucks really shouldn't be getting front page. What I find funny that you fail to mention, is that the DOMO movies are getting front page-- which, are made by a COMPANY, and is being praised as if a SINGLE ARTIST is creating and posting this nearly bi-weekly.

I'd demand something be done about it, but Aeria games pays for ad space here on NG, so I highly doubt anything'd get done, and they're technically not breaking any rules. Fuckers.

Anyway, back on topic. That's all fine and dandy, and yes, some of this shit that's getting through the portal is really getting old, and needs some kind of better... "filtering" system, persay, to keep the lame shit off the front page.
I liked your idea for adding a category section for when you submit; like they have on Deviantart. It's pretty dandy so long as you don't get ridiculously complicated like D.A.'s turned it into, where you need to be a genius to figure out what exactly your 5 minute drawing of Naruto dry humping Sasuke drawn with a piece of turd-covered crayon needs to go. And hey, maybe it could be like a rite of passage for new mods to have to sift through reports of mis-categorized crap movies. D.A. normally doesn't care when its thrown in the wrong pile, so why should NG?

Submitions should be given the chance to be categorized, and from there, voted upon. This is where I start thinking you're a douche-bag though: ALL categories at that point should be given the same chance to get a prize. Do you work for disney? Are you a professor in animation? Are you the god of animation, and can deem some animator's toils as worthy and unworthy based upon their medium? Well-done sprite movies are actually really hard to do. In fact, they're harder to do then fbf-- at least with some of these idiots who call their fbf dicking around in flash art. I've done both, and I focus on fbf, because its easier for me to do, and I can b.s. better than I can with sprites.

Anyway, to summarize: yes, categories should be made. No, "original" movies should not be considered the only ones worthy of being given prizes. Why? because FOAMY is considered original under that category, isn't it? And I think everyone can agree he's gotten old, and really needs to try something ACTUALLY original.
And I realize that means Tom'll have to shell out more money. No, he doesn't. He doesn't even have to give out prizes for this. He's doing that because he's an awesome guy like that. Maybe each category can get its own award, and the cash prize goes to the one that had the highest score when weighted upon the votes (NG is still a mock-democracy after all)

I also looked at your halloween submition. That was the worst plot I think I've seen in awhile that got a score over 3.0. I gave it a 4. Did I do it because all the famous Newgrounds symbols were dead? No. I gave it that because the message was old, filled with nothing but clear violence towards said symbols (which is also like beating a dead horse, almost literally), and wasn't very... halloween-y, really. Your animation was way above par though, and I'm glad we have someone here on NG that also knows what he's doing visually, and audio-wise-- I just hope you can work your story-boarding out, and can find a message you want to convey in a clear, thoughtful manner. Ever thought about running a series like Xin? Necropolis? I think if you put your energies into a decent story with a defininte ending, you could do very well here on NG, no one seems to wanna stick their neck out to write a decent story anymore.

If your qualms are with these dumb 13 year old boys who can't get their hands or heads around anything that's not a penis or a video game, then you're in the wrong community. It's like going on 4chan and hating anime, lolcats, or any internet meme/fad for that matter. You're choosing the wrong place to hang out. If you want to be viewed on your artistic talents, I suggest D.A., but you better draw a naked chick once a month, or draw homo-erotic pictures bi-weekly, or you're never making the front page. Newgrounds is made for, and maintained mostly by the community, so if you can't connect to them, they're not going to vote high for you, simple as that. It's a sad existance, but its not like this is the only place you can get critique.
And hey, if you're sick of this same old crap-- post something different. I'm working on my own, and I'm going to seriously be pissed if it gets blammed.

Good luck, and here's to hoping that small-time animators, voice actor/esses, and muscians get the limelight they deserve.

zeedox 2008-11-15 03:49:33

Personally, I'd be much more satisfied showing my original ideas to 20,000 people than to show Mario to 200,000 people.

thantounderscore 2008-11-15 06:48:15

That's a lot of text for something that is extremely simple. If you want to encourage someone to do something, award them for doing it.

The way I see it, originality is just one of many things that should be looked for in games and movies, and I don't see it as a priority. If the gameplay is good, I don't care if other people have used the same sprites (I'm not talking about 8-32 bit sprites, but all sprites) to represent this or that. As long as I actually enjoy playing it, I don't care. I see humor-driven movies the same way. As long as it is drawn well enough to convey what is desired, then I don't care if it's well-animated. And if it covers something other people have covered, again, as long as its funny, I don't care. For me, the value is in the purpose - funny movies should be funny and games should be fun to play. Things like storylines, settings, sprites, etc. are only additions that can enhance but not take away from them.

If a game or movie relies on originality, it's going to fail, because it is crap. Originality doesn't make something good. It makes a good thing better, and even then, it is unnecessary to achieve that aim.

Also, I think it's a bit silly to complain about the audience as the problem. The people that visit this site do so for what they enjoy on it. There is no accounting for taste. Yours is different than theirs. Different, but not better. Requesting that things be changed to suit your arbitrary tastes is absolutely ridiculous. I might as well request that movies that do not include cock-jokes be moved into their own category, which I would dub "crap", to be contrasted with "awesome". And by that standard, all of your movies are crap, unless I missed something.

Greg-Anims 2008-11-15 11:47:00

oh i jus watched your halloween movie..haha nice one!

im suprised ego is commenting in here considering he gets beaten to death by RTIL in the movie :S

white-over-blue 2008-11-19 14:56:30

That's interesting.

As a newbee to newgrounds, I find it surprising to hear that originality is not respected.
I am surprised because I see that some of the original stuff usually has over a hundred reviews, and some decent scoring, but I didn't know that it wasn't anything compared to the sprite movies.
True, I must admit that I got acquainted with this site because of the video game parodies and sprite animations, and even I want to put some stuff in here.

Reading this little article is really deterring from doing so, but I guess I shouldn't be afraid of showing some of my ideas.
Should I really give it a try and submit some stuff in?

In the end, I guess that, by reading your article, I could try and leave some original stuff and be unnoticed, and then add some fan material to see what happens; a balance between both I mean.

MindChamber 2008-11-26 17:30:27

Lol, you make one original flash, after fucking years of sprite movies and newgrounds referenced movies, and you all of a sudden discovered the holygrail of original entertainment.

How about you and unkijoe shut up and put up already.